From chatting to The Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak, about sustainability and the future of jobs, to binge watching MasterChef and Netflix with her young family. We talk about the changing priorities enforced by lockdown living on Yewande Akinola - an award winning female engineer, who shares memories of an inspirational childhood in Nigeria and her Mum's spicy Jollof rice. We also discuss the connection between engineering, art and performance, and why water will always matter. "Women see in colour!", she tells Comms from the Shed - listen in to our latest episode to find out more.
From chatting to The Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak, about sustainability and the future of jobs, to binge watching MasterChef and Netflix with her young family. We talk about the changing priorities enforced by lockdown living on Yewande Akinola - an award winning female engineer, who shares memories of an inspirational childhood in Nigeria and her Mum's spicy Jollof rice. We also discuss the connection between engineering, art and performance, and why water will always matter. "Women see in colour!", she tells Comms from the Shed - listen in to our latest episode to find out more.
Chapters
1mins20secs - My biggest challenge in the last 12 months
3mins20s - A week in the life of Yewande
5mins - Chatting with the Chancellor about the future of jobs
7mins - Memories of a Nigerian childhood
11mins - Following in Dad's footsteps
14mins30s - Demas Nwoko: Arts, Architecture and the back-garden Ampitheatre.
19mins - World Water: 'I saw the impact the lack of water had in my immediate environment'.
22mins - 3 major construction projects that stick in my memory.
24mins30s - a very tiny amount of Mandarin!
25mins - A newly sharpened career focus.
27mins - What STEM means to me, and the importance to girls and young children.
30mins - My years as a 'baby engineer', being a sponge and coming of age.
32mins30s - Comfort TV and lockdown living.
35mins30s - Hopes and aspirations for the long term.
37mins - Message for women considering construction as a career. "Women see in colour!"
39mins45s - Comparing Mum's cooking and spicy Jollof rice.
42mins - Looking to the next generation for inspiration.
Hi, my name is Sam Bleazard. Welcome to Comms from the Shed, the interview show where you get to hear from a range of diverse and interesting voices on how they've coped during the global pandemic. In this series we will be taking an informal look at life, talking to people who've been doing incredible things, and asking them about their hopes for the future - in both their personal and professional lives. Hope you enjoy it.
Today we welcome Yewande Akinola, an award winning engineer, innovator and speaker, she has worked on projects in the U.K., Africa, the Middle East and East Asia. She is passionate about STEM education and has talked about it on TV, in schools and also now in her role as the visiting professor at the University of Westminster. In the 2020 New Year's honours list, she was awarded an MBE for services to engineering innovation and diversity in STEM. She grew up in Nigeria and now lives in Rugby with her young family. Yewande welcome to Comms from the Shed.
Thank you very much, Sam. It's a huge honour to be here.
And it's lovely to have you here Yewande. I'm going to kick off just by asking you what you've found is the biggest challenge that you've faced into during the last 12 months.
I was pretty up there with the miles, you know, train journeys, car journeys, flights and I thought I was enjoying it. I really liked the adrenaline, and I liked the fact that I was always in a hurry in the mornings. You know, I was always running after a train, missing trains as well, having random conversations with people on the train, meeting up with friends after work, or as I was kind of traveling through a train station or something. Then it all kind of went from, like 100 to 0. You know, I'll be very honest with you, there were times I cried just 'cause I wanted to move around, I wanted to fly, and I was stuck, like glue to this chair. I had to really overcome that. I realized that I needed to spend more time with my family. I realized how much I've been missing out with my daughter as well. So there was a little bit of self realization and, you know, a little bit of guilt as well. Like 'Oh gosh, she's been such a terrible Mum for the last, like, 3-4 years'. And now you're stuck with this amazing, amazing person, and there's so much you could you might have missed out on if there wasn't a pandemic. Yeah, so that has been my year. I'm much more comfortable with myself right now.
We talked there about the last 12 months. You're still incredibly busy, you're doing so many different things. I was going to suggest asking you about a day in the life. Could you give us a brief overview of a week?
You know what I'd always that I guess I'm an engineer, right? But people have always been right at the heart of my engineering, if that makes any sense. So I started off wanting to be able to design engineering solutions for people around me. Even when I was a kid, I would spend hours building models of homes. It was always for the people around me or my immediate family. So for pretty much all of my life, I've needed that interaction with people. I've grown up and I've developed my career around finding context for my engineering. In the last 12 months or, you know, the last week, those elements of interaction with people, the element of engaging and speaking the engineering language for sustainability, it always finds its place in conversations with people, in interviews and in trying to inspire, I guess, the next generation. And I would say that is the heart of it to be honest. Everything else is a bit of a spin off, but it all comes from me needing to be able to express ideas or learn from people.
I know that you dialled into a call with the Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak recently. Can you tell us how that came about and what it was that you were discussing?
So his office reached out because he had been running a series of conversations around the future of jobs. I mean obviously it's been an incredibly difficult year for so many people. You know people have also used this time to reflect on their careers. There's been a lot of career changes as well. People have lost jobs unfortunately. So he's been running these conversations to work out, and really bring to the surface, what new jobs people need to start tracking, especially as we aim for our Net zero ambitions. Of course I was glad to be having that conversation especially with an incredible panel of innovators. There are people who are responding to health care and ensuring that we are a bit more resilient the next time a pandemic comes around, so I was definitely up for it. Especially with my perspective of sustainability and how we start to scale up a workforce to be able to think differently. It was a great conversation, the exchange of ideas was brilliant.
You've had quite a journey to get to the point that you're at now. And for those listening to this episode who don't know you well, and don't know your story - you were born in Nigeria in the mid eighties, is that right? I mean, can you just just tell us what your your memories are of your childhood, and your formative years? What was it like growing up in the part of Nigeria where you spent your early years?
Yes. So I was born in Nigeria in a town / city called Ibadan. Born to obviously my mom and dad (laughs), Vera and Jonathan. Like me my mom was a lecturer as well for a few years, at a University in Nigeria. And I would spend lots of time on campus. I was surrounded by incredible architecture. My dad was a civil servant at the time, and he had actually retired, but he had spent a lot of his earlier years serving, and he progressed up to the ranks of Permanent Secretary and worked as a minister for transport for works and housing. So I was I was pretty much born into this home where there was great achievement. But then there was a lot of creativity as well. My Mum's an artist, and so she was always sketching out something or dropping us off at her Tutor's house. And he was an incredible architectural artist as well. It was lots of fun. There was art, there was politics, it was exploration, there was creativity. My dad unfortunately passed on when I was only five. My Mum very quickly became this single Mum of two. And she was very clear in her mind what she wanted to give us - my sister and I - the very best in terms of education and in terms of an exposure to huge possibilities. I grew up to be inspired by her because I saw her overcome huge challenges. I also saw the lack of engineering infrastructure in my immediate environment, and that is when the idea that I could be a part of the solution started to kind of grow and evolve, because I could use the materials that were around me. So I used to make lots of models out of my Mum's paper, to build what I would imagine would be much nicer houses to live in, for me and my family, and my friends. And that encouragement to be creative then morphed into engineering. So engineering that would then, you know, help me design a water supply system, or a transport system. Or a power supply system that was actually, you know, reliable. Happy childhood.
Is it fair to say that there are some parallels between the path your father took and your own? In the sense that he was also very academic, pursued his studies, studying the Classics in Nigeria, but also coming to the UK to carry on his studies and his work. Was it a conscious or an unconscious thing? Do you feel in some way that followed his path either consciously or otherwise?
Wow. Do you know what, nobody has ever asked me that question? Incredible question. Wow. You know what? My Dad was such an incredible man. So even though he passed on when I was very young, I grew up being so aware and so conscious of the incredible things that he had done. I'd meet people in the most remote places and they would ask what my surname was, and five minutes into the conversation, they'd let me know that he had commissioned a road that connected one town to another. Or, they would tell me that they bumped into him somewhere, and didn't have any money he offered it to them and they never had to pay it back. So I grew up with that. So, you know he was always with me, but he was always my standard as well, right? I always felt I had to live up to the standard that he had set. And even when I was in senior secondary school...I can remember one of the first days in senior secondary school, I can remember the owner of the school coming up to me and saying, 'Your dad was a great man, so we we wouldn't expect less from you'. So there was a lot of pressure, but I feel it was probably just his way of encouraging me and pushing me on to be the best that I could be from the other side. I'm really going to have to dig deep and think about that question again because I think it's very possible that I've been on this journey and crafted this journey, and pushed myself to the limits in so many instances because of the standard I feel that he set for us. Well done, Sam.
The journalism impulse never leaves you Yewande. Now, if anyone is listening that hasn't had the chance catch it already, last week Yewande gave her inaugural lecture at the University of Westminster, and it was titled 'Global Citizen Reporting for Duty'. It's well worth a watch and a listen. I want to ask you about something that came out of the great presentation that you gave, as you mentioned a figure from your childhood. I believe his name is Demas Nwoko? You talked about the fact that the building that you grew up in - and I hope I get this right - had an ampitheatre in the back garden.
That's correct. Yes.
And you also talked about how this sparked a kind of child's imagination. And I was really tickled by that. Can you talk a little bit more, to expand on that and bring it to life for people...what a childhood in Nigeria was like?
So, Demas Nwoko was my Mum's mentor. She had been trying to work out her place in the world of art. I really need to ask her to find out how she actually met him. For anybody who doesn't know him, go check him out. It's spelt D - E - M - A - S, N - W - O - K - O. He was a lecturer at the University of Ibadan and he also studied fine arts. Mum spent a lot of time with him learning pottery techniques and learning how to express art through texture patterns, you name it. And she became quite close to his family. And so when my dad passed on and she obviously had to work full time she had to drop us off somewhere after school. So there were a lot of times when she would pick us up from school and drop us off at this incredible space that he had created. For anybody listening, go check it out. It's located on a gorgeous hill with a view of the ancient city of Ibadan. You literally look out and there's this sea of brown corrugated iron sheets and the backdrop is what looks like a two story mud house, but actually it's a mixture of brick and mud and a representation of African arts and sculpture. We would just spend so much time in there. There was an amphitheatre that he had actually built for university students, literally a few miles away from the location, and so students could come and put plays on. But the great thing was that we had it every single day of the week. At the weekend sometimes it would literally accommodate 200, 300, maybe 400 people with dance and culture, drums, the works. That for me was the kickstarter, if that's the right word. That for me was the vision that helped me think okay, yes - that's the connection between engineering, art and performance. And the fact that I could be in that space and enjoy it all at once. I look back on those times and just think, oh my goodness, I was just incredibly lucky. I don't think we realized it then because it was just our play area, you know it was just that place that we pretended to be like actors and actresses. But now I look back and and and I think - you know what? I got a lot of validation for the idea of engineering meeting art from that space.
And what powerful idea that is. I think now the message from my own daughters is clear. I think I've landed the arts and the love of bohemian pursuits. But I can play this podcast to them, so that we can add engineering into the mix. One of the accolades you received quite early in your career was young woman Engineer of the Year. And you impressed the judges at the time with your work and your thinking on water and sanitation in developing countries. I know also that yesterday was World Water Day and I just wondered what your thoughts on the challenges ahead now are, and also what the goals are for 2030?
The idea and the conversation on water is just such a huge one. You know, going back again, everything seems to be kind of rooted in my childhood. Again, I saw the impact the lack of water had in my immediate environment. Even now, right? There are parts of the world where you just know that, if people didn't have to walk many miles to be able to collect water, they'd be spending that valuable time doing much more interesting, and inspiring things. So with the sustainable development goal it's just so extremely important that we weave it back into the idea of sustainability. Now my journey into water, I mean call it fate. Call it destiny. It just pretty much happened because I got an internship with Thames Water in between my second and my third year. My professor at university was very much a water expert. You know my third year project was in water. I started my first job in water. And it's just a testament to the fact that you know, for a resource that we use and absolutely need in our day to day, we perhaps don't realize...all the work and all the effort that goes into it - the fact that we can have access to it now. What the judges were impressed by, was I think, the sustainable aspect to get water to people, because getting clean water to our taps is very energy hungry. So for us to be able to come up with methods that use less energy, less power, that make the most of gravity, and make the most of the water falling freely on our roofs is what we need to be thinking of, in this society, as well as the developing world.
It's really, really interesting to talk about that and reflect on it again. For people who may be tuning in and learning about your career for the first time, as well as your studies in your background, you've also worked for some major organisations in the UK - Arup being one, and Laing O'Rourke, the global construction and engineering firm. In terms of the construction and infrastructure projects that you've worked on, are there one or two that have been particularly memorable, either to do with the complexity of the challenge, or just some aspect of them that you worked on?
Yes. So three projects come to mind. I feel like the first projects I worked on, as that baby engineer, always have to feature right, because I was straight out of university, really trying to work out what my place was in the world. I was obviously very scared about potentially getting things wrong and designing a system that then fails and, just gets everybody into trouble! Yes, so I'd say that one of the first ones was a school project. It was a really fun school project out in Devon with a big, massive, huge sustainability theme. We created these large systems that collected water directly from the roof, so the kids could see the water coming in directly from the roof into their toilet spaces. So there was a big, massive aspect of engagement, of students engagement in the architecture as well as in the engineering. Another one I really enjoyed working on was out in China. Just me in a place that was very, very foreign to me, and not being able to speak the language, but learning how to communicate with my colleagues. It was an incredible hotel project, with a hotel building and a water park, and lots of different rides and dolphin stadiums, the works. Again it had a massive sustainability theme. For me it was a huge opportunity to learn how to design super high rise buildings and pretty plush hotels as well. More recently I've had the opportunity to work on a hospital project. And when you work on a hospital project, there's that immediate connection because you're creating a space where people hopefully go into, receive care and become better. So a £500 million project is absolutely worth every second spent in it.
Is it true that you you speak a little bit of Mandarin?
A very tiny amount! And very tiny is probably all I can say. The thing is, you move to China and you absolutely need to learn enough mandarin to be able to tell a taxi driver where you're trying to get to. Otherwise you pretty much might as well just pack your bag and go back home. Ordering food as well.
We kicked off the interview by talking about the lockdown and coronavirus, and you have shared some of your feelings about that. Have your priorities changed in any way or is your focus sharpened on any aspects of your career? Has it affected your thinking?
My focus has sharpened, and I have become a little bit more courageous in dropping things that I don't need, or that I don't necessarily need at the moment. As we go through life there are a lot of things that we pick up as needs. And actually, when we really think about them, they're more like wants, right? We feel like we need to fit this persona of 'Oh, you are working 9 to 5', or you are engaged in with certain types of people, or you are saying the right things to the right people. And actually, what I have found whilst I've reflected is that, you just need to be true to who you are at all times. It sometimes feels like you've got all the time in the world. But actually, what you've got it now - and being confident in the fact that you've got enough skills to make the most of now, and definitely using all that you have, and all that you've gained over the years to get to that place, so that you can actually bring tangible impact to other people's lives.
Absolutely. And speaking about tangible impact in terms of other people's lives - science, technology, engineering and maths, or abbreviated to STEM (in terms of the media). What does stem mean to you? And how important is stem for girls and young children?
Yes, so STEM to me means, the tool that we use to bring creativity and purpose to life, right? So we use the physics and the technology and the engineering to take us from that place where we have an idea that would help make people's lives easier, better, you know, bolder and bring it into its reality. And so when people say but physics is too difficult and maths is too difficult, I'm like - it's it's only a tool. It's only part of a bigger picture. It's only part of the exercise of going from that place of vision to reality. And that's what I always say to young people. You know, they go, 'Oh, I want to change the world, I want to bring something different to the world but I don't like maths'. I'm like, actually you're in a good place, right? Because your starting place needs to be that you want to change the world, and you want to make things easier for people, or you want to make the world more sustainable, and that is 60% of the journey. Now, all you have to do is use as little or as much of the maths and the physics, to then get you to that place where you can actually realize your dream. And it's so exciting now, because there's this diversification of STEM. Honestly, I just think of 100 years ago when you were either a civil engineer, like Brunel, or you were a civil engineer or a shipbuilder. Now there's this incredible spectrum of different things that you can be - a biomedical engineer, a technologist, or a sustainability engineer, a construction expert, a scientist. It's just so exciting. And everything is clearer in its relation back to its purpose in society. You can trace it back to its place in society, so it's a lot easier than you would have had it 100 years ago. So very exciting.
You mentioned earlier - I think you described yourself as a baby engineer - so I wanted to ask you a two part question. What was the reaction to you when you first started out in your career, when you were arriving on projects, in different cultures and different parts of the world? Also, how important is diversity in engineering?
My baby years were actually like plain sailing. It was so, so easy because I was there to learn. And when you're there to learn you aren't a threat to anybody, because people can just pretty much feed you with whatever they think you should be fed with. And to be honest I had the most incredible mentors. You know my boss was just an absolute God send. So for the first two to three years of my career was I was very much shielded, and I was definitely not a threat to anybody, and then I started to grow. The baby started to grow into a toddler, and this toddler was a lot more vocal in what she thought, you know in the ideas that she thought of and should be implemented on projects. So things kind of went from 'whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa - hang on. The baby is talking and she actually has an opinion, and she's saying stuff. And I'm not sure if I've got the listening ears for this toddler. And actually, that's when I came across some of my biggest challenges. I had to learn how to communicate in a way that I could be happy with the output, and the outcome. You know there was a lot of politics as well. I had to learn how to stand up for myself. I had to overcome the feeling of being incompetent as well. That was something I struggled with for a very, very long time. And I had to prove to myself on several occasions that I was actually I was there for a reason and I had something to bring to the table. It's an ongoing project. Trust me.
I think what you're saying is we're all a work in progress. I think it's great to hear you saying that as well. We've talked about lockdown, and I just kind of wondered on a human level - because I ask a lot of guests on Comms to the Shed this question. What have been your comfort things? What have been your go to things in lockdown? It could be food, it could be TV, books, music, sport or fitness. But what's been your comfort thing or things that have gotten you through?
Oh, okay. So before lockdown I didn't watch that much TV. And even though I present TV stuff, I wouldn't binge on stuff. I think the last time I binged on anything was Prison Break, and that was like, how many years ago? But my husband is a TV fan, literally he would sacrifice sleep for television. And so after we went through the, you know, phase of - 'Ok right, I'm actually stuck with you in this house for days'? I had to kind of fit myself back into his life, because I'd somehow removed myself from it because I'd been so busy. So we found programmes that we could both watch. And my daughter joined us, so we'd watch MasterChef. Yeah, MasterChef for for hours. And we'd watch stuff on Netflix as well. There's a glass-based program called Blown Away. I think on Netflix. Random stuff like Narcos, just lots of different things. It's actually been really nice. And there was a time I decided I needed to stay fit. It was not long lasting, but yeah, that was fun, because I could get my daughter to help and support me, and encourage me and shout out, 'carry on, Mummy, you can do it!'. Plus dancing and music have always been a part of my everyday, I need music. I need to be able to move around. So, it's been nice to have that as well. Not much reading, definitely not much reading, but yeah, the music, the dance and TV.
You're not alone. Fitness was very much lockdown one, that was so lockdown one. You know, we were all running up and down the garden. I know I was. And now not so much, it's coffee and croissants all day long. Now I must ask you to bring it back to where it all began. What are your hopes for the future in terms of improving infrastructure in different parts of the world. Obviously, Nigeria and Africa is a particular passion project because of where you grew up. But what would your hopes be in the short and longer term?
I think we've spent the last 100-150 years making a lot of things too complex for our world. And we've built up this sense of complexity and found ways to make what should be very, very simple interventions. Interventions seem so difficult and expensive and nearly impossible because we want to make a case for grants for GDP for, you know, flow of cash, or loans or whatever. My hope for the world is that we can throw a lot of the jargon out, and simplify it all, and have conversations around delivering sustainable infrastructure that does not cost an arm and a leg - losing the jargon and political complexity. And really just make the most of the resources in terms of talent, in terms of technology, to make people's lives better.
Having worked at Laing O'Rourke I've seen the changes that have been happening in the construction industry in recent years. You're someone who's come through the education system to study engineering. But you would also have seen, as I did, that increasingly there are more women coming into construction and infrastructure. What would your message be to any women that were considering it as a career, or considering a career change to move into that sector?
The construction industry needs you...because we need the diversity of thinking that you definitely will bring. The other thing I would say is when you come in, yes it's difficult. And I'm not even going to be shy about that. It is difficult. It is what it is, because it hasn't had the opportunity to experience the change that diversity will have on the industry. And that has to happen. You know, that has to happen for the industry to survive. When we think of how technology has impacted our world and the new and emerging industries that have come about because of this new way of thinking, I get worried for the construction industry - because it only takes somebody to come up with a different, super cost effective way of doing one thing. It's a big, massive game changer, and so for it to survive it needs to innovate. It needs to be relevant. And so anybody who's thinking of innovating - women see things in colour, right? There is definitely a place in the construction industry, absolutely.
Just to finish off, I want to ask you a couple of questions going back to your youth because I was thinking about the fact that you are a mentor to various people, and obviously you've had very inspirational mentors yourself. I would imagine your mum, as you mentioned, who was for long periods of a single parent, was a fantastic and very inspirational mentor. And you also mentioned, I believe, that you really miss the food in Nigeria? And I just wondered if you could share a memory of one of your mum's signature dishes? What kind of things would your mum cook you? What are your favourite meals that you remember as a girl in Nigeria?
Oh, wow okay. So when I look back on some of the stuff that my mum made for us as kids, I just kind of think - Mum, what were you trying to do to us?! Do you know what, now I sit her down and I say, Mummy, taste this. This is how Jollof rice is supposed to taste, right? Not just rice with lots of scotch bonnet no tomatoes in it! You know what I mean? My mum is really into spicy food, and there were times that literally I'd be eating and crying at the same time. It's just because the food was so hot and spicy. She was always trying to convince us that it was exactly how it should have tasted. But now I know I'm a lot wiser and so there's this really funny thing that we do all the time where I cook a dish from my childhood and just say - 'Hey mum taste this, do you prefer mine?' And she's like, uh, yes, maybe, but yeah she used to make lots of Jollof rice which is a West African delicacy, right? You would go to parties and there iss always Jollof rice, rice with tomato and peppers, and curry powder, spices and lots of onions. And and she used to make lots of that. She used to make a lot of things in the pressure cooker as well.
Some lovely memories. Just to finish off, bringing you full circle to your own family. And you have one daughter - is that right?
Yes, I do. Yes.
What sort of life lessons are you passing on to your own daughter. What are your hopes and aspirations? And has she expressed an interest in anything related to the kind of career you've had?
Do you know what? I'm learning so much from her right now? And honestly, I think her generation is completely different to mine. In my youth there was a lot of, ok you're the child and you know, your parent is the parent type relationships when I was growing up. Now I'm looking to her for inspiration. I love the fact that she's so curious always asking questions. She is a bit of a, I don't think the word is drama queen, she'll tell you she's not a drama queen. She's a drama princess, but she's very confident, She's very, very confident, in that, you can't give her a half-baked answer to her question. You know, she goes - how is this building built? You have to give her the full story. She's very interested in building. She watches Grand Designs non-stop. She just turned four, and she sees me come up on the TV and gets so excited at the fact that she can see Mummy building something. She says - 'I want to become an engineer so I can travel the world with you and always be with you', and that is amazing. But she also wants to become a fashion designer. She also wants to become a hairdresser. She also wants to become an artist, and she also wants to become a Chef. So right now, I'm saying, Girl, you can be anything - and as many things as possible. And I'm just enjoying the flourishing and the unfolding pretty.
Well it feels to me like that's brought our story pretty much full circle. It's been a tremendous pleasure talking to you today Yewande, and I look forward to sharing this episode of Comms from the Shed. Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you, Sam. It's been a wonderful pleasure.
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