Comms from the Shed: interviewing diverse voices on our present and the future.

Episode 3: essential listening on fashion. Two years ago Jo Hooper founded NRBY Clothing, whose 'one-mile wear' caught the imagination of women #WFH. Colourful designs and ethically sourced fabrics grabbed journalists and influencers alike. We also look back on her early years as a student in Durham.

Episode Summary

Ladies fashion, womenswear - Jo Hooper has got the t-shirt. Having already worked with some of the UKs most famous high street brands, she wasn't content to rest on her laurels. Two years ago she founded NRBY, whose 'one-mile wear' caught the imagination of women working from home. The colourful designs and ethically sourced fabrics engaged journalists and social media influencers alike during lockdown. We bring Jo's story up to date, but also look back on her early years as a student in Durham. Essential listening for anyone with an interest in fashion.

Episode Notes

Ladies fashion, womenswear - Jo Hooper has got the t-shirt. Having already worked with some of the UKs most famous high street brands, she wasn't content to rest on her laurels. Two years ago she founded NRBY, whose 'one-mile wear' caught the imagination of women working from home. We bring Jo's story up to date, but also look back on her early years as a student in Durham. Essential listening for anyone with an interest in fashion.

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Episode 3 - summary & timecodes

Intro from Sam Bleazard

1mins10secs - NRBY Clothing concept.

2mins05s - Japanese 'one-mile' wear, and a trip to the Golden Triangle.

4mins30s - Launching two years ago, surviving and speaking to customers online.

9mins - The rise of the influencer and authenticity.

13mins - The future (and purpose) of the high street, fast fashion and the UK creative industries.

18mins30s - Ethics, supply-chain sourcing and transparency.

24mins - Where Jo's love of fashion began.

28mins - The Tuxedo Princess

29mins - Women who inspired me #IWD2021.

33mins30s - 'A few of my favourite things'

35mins30s - An unusual fact about Jo.

37mins20s - Hope for the future of fashion, and plans for NRBY.

39mins30s - A final thought.

Episode Transcription

Hi, my name is Sam Bleazard - welcome to Comms From the Shed. The interview show where you get to hear from a range of diverse and interesting voices on how they've coped during the global pandemic.  

In this series we'll be taking an informal look at life, talking to people who've been doing incredible things, and asking them about their hopes for the future in both their personal and professional lives. 

Hope you enjoy it.  

Joining us today is retail consultant and director Jo Hooper. Jo is a well known figure in British fashion and womenswear. She was head of buying and design at Debenhams and head of Womenswear at John Lewis. She has also worked with numerous brands such as L.K. Bennett, Pure Collection and also at the V&A museum in London. Most recently, Jo has been making waves and headlines with her brand NRBY clothing, and we're delighted to have her on the show. Jo, welcome to Comes from the Shed.

Thank you very much. It's lovely to be invited on, and what a lovely, luxurious shed this is.

It's like the Tardis on the inside, some would say it's a common garden shed, but don't be fooled Jo. This is a global Comms hub. So, firstly, what's the concept and the inspiration behind NRBY (nearby) Clothing?  

It's all in the name, actually. So nearby - NRBY, which is just the word nearby with the vowels taken out - is clothes for home, and nearby. It's very much inspired by the Japanese concept of 'one mile wear, and that is basically clothes you can wear at home and that you can wear a mile from your front door in theory, so you can throw your coat on and run out to get a pint of milk. Or, you know, as I have done today legally for the first time, be able to meet a girlfriend for coffee and sit on a bench. So very much everyday clothing, appealing to everyone, with all natural fibres, very easy and very relaxed. So, yeah, that's nearby (NRBY).  

Now you mentioned Japanese one mile wear. I mean, when when did you first become aware of that, as a concept?  

Well, I was contemplating what I wanted to do in terms of my brand, and I was fortunate enough to do a little bit of travelling. I went to India for the first time, as a holiday maker and not on a business trip, which was a fabulous experience. I did the Golden Triangle and went to palaces, and it was a fabulous experience with a girlfriend. Really, really lovely and sort of really started me thinking. And what I was thinking about was pyjamas at the time. I don't know if you know this, but the word pyjama is an Indian word for for trousers, basically easy trousers. And it sort of went from there. Then I had a brilliant brainstorming session with four girlfriends and four bottles of champagne - which is sort of how it works the best - before we got to the point where we couldn't remember anything we had thought of or said. One of my girlfriends said, yes it's like the Japanese do it, they talk about one mile and at that point I was like, yes, yes, yes, and it really struck a chord. So it's something that people have started to talk a lot more about, obviously, in terms of how trends have accelerated over the past 12 months - in terms of what we've been living through. It's also something that's always sort of been bubbling under, and it's something that's been very close to my heart, in that it's about clothes for everyday. It's really the clothes that you reach for, and you know I joke about it and I say, "well, you know, people say, 'oh, you mean the things that are on your bedroom chair', and I'm like, yeah but they don't even make it to the chair in my life, as they're there on the bathroom floor because I pick them up and I wear them again. So it's your favourite things that you reach for every day. And the 'one mile' concept really seemed to sort of encapsulate that, and once people know what it means, they really get it.  

No, absolutely. In reading about your new brand, obviously it appeals to women working from home, and actually I believe it started approximately two years ago, when at the time I'm sure you couldn't have anticipated the situation that we're living through now. But has it been advantageous as a concept just because of what's happened?  

Absolutely. You know, it's very peculiar. It has resonated very much with the consumer in terms of what she's been thinking about. Interestingly enough, you know, a lot of other fashion brands have had to sort of pivot to change from, you know, this fabulous dress that you wear to a party or a wedding. We are peacocks as people, but the thing that goes along with that is that you need somewhere to show off the finery that you might have purchased, and we haven't had those occasions very often recently. So it's time we definitely saw an acceleration. It was very interesting because, as you say, we launched two years ago. We were a year in, and when the call came to close down our little pop-up shop, we were an online business as well. I thought, well it'll be a couple of weeks and then we'll be able to open up again. And who knows where life will lead, you know? We just want to be there. We just want to survive to a time when the doors can reopen. And it really made us focus on our online business, which is something perhaps that we hadn't done previously because it was our only way to speak to our consumer, and it really took off from there. It's been extraordinary. We have connected with so many more customers. We've had the support of so many fabulous fashion journalists who, I suppose, have also been struggling for something to write about in the absence of all the other usual stimulus that we have all around us all the time.

And they've helped us tell our story very well and sort of brought us to, a wider audience and this this period has been about storytelling, and retailing currently is very much about storytelling. You know, aside from your Amazon experience, where perhaps you are looking for speed and convenience, if you're going to shop with somebody else, there are a couple of good questions you ask yourself, and one is, what does this brand stand for? And then the second question is, why do I need it in my life? And so you have to find a way of telling that story very quickly, and that is through words and pictures. A lot of it is pictures obviously, in terms of fashion. However increasingly it's also about the words that go behind that. The transparency that goes into what your brand is all about, and who you are. The interesting thing for me was, having already set up the website, somebody said to me, 'Oh, I love it Jo, but where are you? You're nowhere to be seen'. And what I said was, 'well look, I'm a little bit reticent. I want it to work, and I don't want it to be about me'. But the funny thing is, that I'm curious about other brands that I purchase from, and I want to know their backstory. I want to know who those people are. I want to know if they're struggling with home schooling and drinking too much on a Wednesday night and life generally, and so it's that sort of sense of honesty that I love. That whole sense of authenticity and connection has really helped us connect with our customers I think.

That's a great answer. And you know, you alluded to it there, but I noticed that the power of colour is mentioned in connection to your brand. And I know that Instagram, and other channels which are influential, have helped your turnover massively and certainly supported your new business. I just wondered, as as I've got you on the the line, what do you think of influencer culture? I mean, I know you're vastly experienced in your own field of retail and fashion, but what's been your take on it? The evolution of it? Because once upon a time we lived in a different world, where people maybe studied fashion, and they were people who came out of college or university with a degree in it. But now it's actually about people that cultivate a following on social media. So what's what's your take on the rise of the influencer?  

Yeah, it's one aspect, I suppose. As you say, in terms of talking about people studying fashion, it's one particular aspect. I mean, I suppose it very much links into the attention span that we have currently, that we've all been driven even more so on to our phones and laptops. But phones particularly. There are some brilliant aspects of it, in that it's immediate. You can go down a rabbit hole, you start following something interesting, and you can end up in a whole different place, and then you look up and you've lost half an hour of your life. I also think that is moving forward because, it used to be very much airbrushed and and slick. During lockdown we've very much enjoyed going back to the point about authenticity, you know, the authentic. It's a case of - I didn't really wake up looking like this you know, but this is what I'm dealing with. This is Instagram life versus reality. So influences can be very, very important because they are building a following by telling their story in a brilliant way. And what they can do is help you think about your brand slightly differently. I think sometimes challenge of running a business is when you are a very small team, and the great excitement of it is that, one minute you are ordering mailing bags, or you're trying to get something cleared through customs, you're picking colours, you are ordering, you're buying toilet paper. I mean, you're doing the whole thing, but at the same time sometimes you don't look up to see the bigger picture. In terms of brand storytelling, influencers can really help you with that because they can put things together in a slightly different way. They can also remind you of what's important to your consumer, but they are also evolving. I think they are. I mean you are always going to have the Kim Kardashian's of this world. I'm sure they will always be influential, but there is a whole tranche of real life people who are telling their stories in a relatively unvarnished way. And we like that, you know. I think the important thing in terms of messaging over the last 12 months has been that as a small organisation, we absolutely have a communications plan, but because we are so small we can say - you know what, I saw the news last night and this isn't feeling right, it's pouring with rain. Let's just fine tune this message a little bit because I don't think you need a message that goes, 'Hi guys! Happy Friday! That's not the kind of thing people want to hear.  

That's a great answer, Jo. And just for the benefit of our listeners, I'm going to reassure everyone that Jo is looking fabulous today. And just for the record, I am wearing a blue shirt with white polka dots. I've gone for a sort of eighties retro vibe on this call. Pictures being brought to life before your eyes. Now Jo, you mentioned influencers. And while influencers have been on the rise, the High Street has had some very, very tough years. Top shop is gone. We know it's been tough for John Lewis, where we both worked, and we have online fast fashion buying out the High Street. So, for example, we've seen BooHoo buying the Debenhams Brand and website for £55 million, so I just wondered what you thought about this. I mean, what's going? What is going to replace these famous British institutions? And what do you think the purpose of the High Street will be in the future? Is it going to be more of a community vibe?

What does the future hold for the High Street? Gosh. And that's the billion dollar question Sam, isn't it? I mean it's been a sad time in some respects, you know, Top Shop in Oxford Circus - visiting there was a rite of passage for teenagers and mums and daughters once upon a time. And for that to disappear during its heyday...it was a fabulous mecca for fashion. You know, Debenhams where I worked, has gone - but I think that was inevitable because I think unfortunately, you know, that business had been asset-stripped, and it was a race to the bottom in terms of, their perception of what the consumer wanted. So in terms of what the future looks like, I think the exciting thing is that, I wanted to talk to my supply base before I launched this brand - and I worked with four - and I still work with four key suppliers who I had worked with for many, many years. I sat down in front of them with a whole little pack of why this was going to be the future. And I said to them, look, this is going to be a pain in the ass for you because small is tricky. But I also said, small is good, and it's where the future lives and the big guys are struggling. They all looked at me and within a nanosecond they all said yes, because they also all appreciated that this is the way life is going. And I think there's lots of excitement even where I am locally, in terms of south London, as there are some fabulous little independent businesses that are popping up. That might be a coffee shop, and it might be a florist, and it might be a fashion shop, and there are some fabulous little fast fashion shops as well who are selling online currently and looking forward to opening their doors. But I do think the important thing is that the creative industries do regenerate, and it will come in a different format because those businesses all started in one location. There are these great big monolithic megalithic businesses which all started in one place with a concept and a customer, and you have built up from that point. But everything became ubiquitous, and I think that was a problem. That is a problem, you know. The flip side is, I also feel very sad about those large shops who formed anchors. You know my hometown is Birkenhead, and my mum is still up there. My sister is still up there and when M&S closed a couple of years ago it was desperate times. Then what was the little department store, which was taken over by Frasers that's now gone? It's sad, you know, it is sad and it will be difficult for those places, too, to attract businesses again. But I think from what I've seen and experienced, in terms of the number of people who have spoken to me and said, 'Gosh Jo, you've started your own business?', and you can see them thinking, well this must be easy! Why don't I? I've always thought about starting my own business, and you're like, okay, great. It is absolutely possible. I mean, one of the reasons, I suppose I was hesitant to do this previously, when I was working for the big corporate guys was, and you know how difficult it is going to be, because ultimately to make a business work you do need certain economies of scale. But I suppose what's become clear to me is that there is so much you can do yourself. And there's so much support. Actually, you know, you're sort of cashing in the cheques that you might have written many years ago. You didn't even realize you were writing at the time. In terms of great people that you've worked with, perhaps people you've supported and mentored, and businesses that you've been kind to. Or at least that you've been professional in terms of your interaction with. And those things come back. Also it's a bit like, you don't ask you don't get. You'd be surprised, you'd be amazed what you can get. I was trying, but I couldn't make head nor tail of the of the latest tax scenarios with regards to our business from Rishi Sunak. But you know the number of businesses that turn in less than 50k profit or, you know, 50 to 250k. And there are extraordinary amount of small businesses out there, and they are relatively big employers in the UK economy. I think more of that will happen for sure.  

I totally agree with the adage about being kind to people on the on the way up, because I think there is a collective memory with those kinds of things. You also mentioned suppliers, and starting a business in terms of economies of scale. I think I read a recent quote from an interview you gave where you mentioned that 'we all want to live in a world where we buy less, but buy better'. In a world of fast fashion, as we've mentioned, it's very important for brands to be ethical, and have ethical policies in terms of their supply chain. I just wondered listening to what you said there, what's the starting point? How do you begin that conversation? Because it is such an important one in the world of retail and fashion, isn't it?  

You're absolutely right it is. And it's only become more relevant because the consumer is driving a desire for transparency. Some consumers let's say. Unfortunately we will see queues outside Primark when they reopen their doors, I'm sure. And that's a whole different scenario in terms of supply base. But all businesses - Primark included - we're all working on our transparency and sourcing. And, as a small business you have to start with, I suppose certain red lines, that you know you won't go over. For instance, our ethos is that we are working in natural fibres, so we work in viscose, which comes from wood pulp, normally eucalyptus, which is less consuming of water than cotton. We work in silk, we work in linen and cashmere and so on. And so that was my starting point, in that those things mattered to me. They're not polyester so they won't go to landfill ultimately, ultimately they are biodegradable. And then you start from there and you say, okay so where does the cotton come from? Is it better cotton initiative, cotton? And what does that mean? And there are lots of things that you can do. Ultimately in fashion it's the big guys who need to make the difference and to lead the way. And by that, I mean the big retailers, Marks and Spencer's, John Lewis is part of that. You know, in terms of where they lead, in terms of advances in whether it's packaging, or yarns, or sustainability, codes of conduct, codes of trading transparency. If they do it then it becomes easier for the smaller guys if you like...to follow in their wake. I'm astonished we were investigating our packaging and our coat hangers are made from recycled and recyclable card, our back neck labels are made from recycled polyester and our hang tags are made of bamboo. And we were looking at at the mailing bags that we send our orders out in. And you know, should it be plastic? And should it be plastic or made from recycled plastic? Or should it be paper? All? That's good. But it uses so much more energy and water. And I remember saying to one particular supplier, 'well how has this big retailer dealt with the scenario?'. They said, 'Oh, they've not really asked us about it yet'. And I'm flabbergasted at that because, you know, we are constantly wrestling with minimums where people say, oh, yeah, you can do that job. You need to buy 10,000. I'm like, oh okay, let me think about that. I was just recently asked by a colleague in India who's doing a a study on sustainability, and she said to me, what are the big issues that are really going to drive that? How are we going to make change? And I said, well you know it's by the big guy saying it has to be done this way. It's by factories saying, do you know what, our power has to be solar powered and we have to be transparent about wages and the living conditions of our workers. So I mean, it is being driven by the consumer, but you know in terms of profit making organizations, they will be driven to do that if they think the consumer is demanding it. I mean, those two things are sort of linked, aren't they? You know, they are completely intertwined. It's absolutely fundamental. I think if it wasn't fundamental to your business principles two years ago, it sure as heck should be. Now I don't know if I've answered the question?!  

Absolutely you did answer the question. And listening to you, your passion for what you do is still so clear after such a successful career, in many years in the industry. I wanted just to go back to your early career, when you started out. Could you just tell our listeners where the love of fashion and clothes came from in the first place?  

Oh, yes, so you talk about people starting the industry. So my degree is in English literature, like yours Sam, I think - is that right?  

Yes - that's correct.  

Fabulous. So you and I spent three years just reading wonderful books, didn't we? And studying human nature, which I very much enjoyed. And I think back then, I suppose it was the first time I really had any disposable income. My Children like to say to me, 'but Mum you were paid to go to university' because it was so long ago. You know I was fortunate to have a grant and I didn't have to pay tuition fees and the like, so I used to only have to spend 75p on a paperback version of Bleak House because that's how much it cost. In those days I would go straight to the Metro Centre in Newcastle, and I would decide what I was going to be wearing that term. And I loved it. I had pixie boots in every colour. One of my nicknames was 'banana boots', because I had some in yellow. I just love fashion. I just I loved it. I never thought I would end up working in fashion, but a couple of things happened. I went for an interview as a trainee buyer for Littlewoods, which is now part of Very, and another organization I can't remember the name of now. They've all merged. They had lots of clothes hanging up on the wall and they said, 'Jo, how would you put a range together?' And I thought, this looks like fun. I can definitely be working with clothes all day and, you know, colours and and the like, that's how it got started. I have to say that the training was amazing because I then spent some time in merchandising and all elements of the business, marketing. You got to do a little bit of everything. It was absolutely fabulous. But it was always very much from a sort of problem solving perspective, if you like. You know, people think that a career in fashion is all about more pink, less purple, darling. And obviously there are, about two hours in a week that might be involved in that kind of a conversation, but the rest of the time is about problem solving. The rest of the time is how to make sure that things fit, that you're providing the customer with what she wants, when she wants, where she wants, and all the issues that go with that. So I suppose I've always approached my career, and I never thought to call it a career, probably back when I started. But it's gone on for so long I suppose, I have to call it that, but I always approached it from very much a problem solving business perspective. And I've loved the plate spinning aspect, which I suppose was really like that from the word go when I started as a trainee buyer. It was plates spinning, and it certainly is plates spinning now I'm running my own business.  

It was great to hear some of your experiences from the early days. Now those pixie boot wearing days, or banana boots as you described them - was it always the case going out in Newcastle as a youngster...I mean, did it have the reputation then that it has now? In terms of people going out in the middle of winter without a jacket on? Or, you know, the Newcastle football fans have always been famous for going to games with just a shirt on, or maybe not even a shirt on actually. So was Newcastle the same in those days? Or is that a modern phenomenon?  

I was at university in Durham, and we used to sometimes make it to Newcastle. We would go to the Tuxedo Princess, which was a nightclub on a boat. So it was absolutely fabulous, because it had a spinning dance floor. I mean, as if you needed that when you were a student in your pixie boots and you've had too much to drink. You could spot the students, because the students were always wrapped up in a great big coat from Oxfam with the aforementioned pixie boots, and everybody else was decked out to the nines. But I think that's the same in many university towns.  

You know what Jo? If there's any justice in the world. Someone, after listening to this interview is going to bring back the Tuxedo Princess. I think that should be a hope and an aspiration for the future. Some really fabulous stuff there. It was International Women's Day yesterday, and this is such a big thing every year on social media and in the media generally, and people share fabulous and inspirational stories. I just wondered, are there any women that have been pivotal in your life both at the start, or maybe more recently, who have inspired you along the way on the journey that your career has been?  

Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's an interesting one. I was thinking about my Mum yesterday, and both my parents were very encouraging of me and always made me feel that I could do most things. And I think that's a really great starting place for any young woman and the most important one. It is absolutely crucial in terms of, you know, if you can learn and use your confidence it absolutely grows. I would say, in terms of your experience and your knowledge...to know that you can be resilient and know what you can achieve if you set your mind to it, and what you can learn. That's super important. And and my Mum and her love definitely form an important part of that. And, gosh, there are so many women along the way. It would be hard to name-check them all, but I think I have to mention my partner in crime currently, Cornelia. We worked together at Debenhams when we were both having babies. I had just joined Debenhams with a six month old, who was crying as I handed him over at the nursery. But then, you know, he was fine, and I was fine. Then Cornelia was going through exactly the same. And we went through having three Children each at that time. And I learned an awful lot from her in terms of her efficiency. You know, when she was there, she was there. She was full on and when she was gone, she was gone. She was gone home to take care of her family, and I learned an awful lot from that, but I think most crucially the thing I learned is that, of all the people you know, who I would want to work with - and there are many people you know - but Cornelia represented a great foil to my skill set, in that she was my head of merchandising and I was head of buying. She was very calm, and most importantly her attitude is, do you know what, we'll sort it out. We'll sort it out. It's not a drama. Even when it is a drama! Which is fabulous because, you know, that means that you can handle most things. One of the joys of not being in a large corporation - and I've loved being in large organizations - I've had a great time working for them, but one of the joys is that when things go slightly off piste there isn't a Spanish Inquisition in the boardroom. You just go, well, what do you think about that? That's okay. Should we fix it? Yeah. Let's do it this way. Okay. What do you think? I think the same, let's do it. And that is a joy, an absolute joy, because it means that your decision making is super quick. Also it doesn't sap your energy in the sense that it's useful worrying, not use-less worrying that we tend to do. I would definitely have to mention Cornelia because I can't think of somebody else that I could be doing this with in the same way. She doesn't mind pushing me to the front most of the time. So I think it works for both of us, so that's fabulous.  

We tend to think of things that give us comfort - especially in times like the coronavirus that we're living through now. So in the tough times, we turn to comforting things. Whether that's food, TV, books, music, fitness. I just wondered in terms of hobbies and pastimes, what's your 'go to thing'. Do you have time? Do you have a side-hustle or a hobby that might be interesting for us to hear about?

I don't have a side hustle, but I love the ballet and I always have done, since I was, you know, three years old probably. And so, as I have been living in London in the last few years, I have had the pleasure of going to the Royal Opera House and the Coliseum, Sadler's wells and anywhere else where I can share the joy of dance with friends, which I absolutely love. I've missed that. I've managed to see The Nutcracker briefly at Christmas because it was on for about three nights, and I managed to get tickets, and that was wonderful. And I have lots of ballet on DVD. I live in a house with four men, so I take myself away and I slip on a DVD of Swan Lake, and the boys know to leave me alone. There's lots of streaming that you can do as well. I was just streaming Manon from the English National Ballet on Friday night, with a little glass of wine while my boys were all having a beer together. So delving into that has been lovely and fabulous, and I can't wait until they can open up the theatres and the Coliseum and the Royal Opera House again. It will just be amazing for the audience and for the dancers. It will be extraordinary.  

I think our listeners are probably getting some sense of where you might be going to head to if we return to something like normal, because you've anticipated my question about where would you be going. If you can, tell our listeners one unusual fact about yourself that we we couldn't possibly know. Certainly the tuxedo princesses is one. But I just wondered if there is anything quirky or unusual that people might not know about you?  

I don't know if you remember this, but I do remember when I was at John Lewis there were a number of pictures that were put up on the wall of the leadership team. The question was asked - which of these four had a place at Sandhurst military college? And, of course, everybody plumped for the posh boy. And in fact, it was me, I had a place at Sandhurst, but then I decided that fashion was calling, so in the words of Goldie Hawn, you know, do these come in any other color than green? Which is what I think she said in Private Benjamin. So that's that's my interesting fact. I don't know if you remember that, Sam?  

You know, I don't remember that, but it's a fascinating fact regardless. You've actually stirred a memory in me. I just got a flashback to an experience at John Lewis, which I haven't thought about it for a long time. Which was, when I worked in the Comms team there, I think I gave the small but perfectly formed team, and maybe some of the leadership team, a mild heart attack by staging an all singing, all dancing fashion show in the conference centre at Odney in Cookham. That was a happy memory, and a sort of nerve-shredding memory all at the same time. Thank you for reminding me of that! It's been absolutely brilliant talking to you today, and I'm just going to finish off with a couple of questions so that we can look ahead, hopefully to a brighter future. I just wondered what your aspirations and hopes are for the months ahead, both with NRBY clothing and also for the retail and fashion industry?  

I'm hoping we'll all be able to open our doors again on the 12th of April. I do get a feeling that there is a an underlying desire to get out there to dress up, to promenade, whether that is a permanent scenario or not ultimately. But let's get out of our leggings everybody. I'm not sure high heels will ever return I have to say, now we've realised what it feels like never to wear them. I don't know about you, Sam? But you know, I think it should be a good time for retail. I think that there's a lot of excitement. I think there'll be lots of people thinking about things in new ways. I think the mixing up of the coffee shop culture and the retail culture, and buying fresh and buying local, and all of those things. You know that there's there's some good stuff there, there's some good stuff. There's also some tough times ahead, for sure, but there's some good stuff there that we need to focus on. In terms of nearby, it's written into our name, you know, we are close to home and nearby. We are definitely speaking to a broader audience than we were this time last year, and in terms of our communications and our conversations with our consumers, we will just go on to build that. You know we're learning about our brand. We're learning about our customer. We're learning how to do things better, and we will continue to focus on that as we grow.  

I'm going to give you the last word. And this is about a mantra that yourself and your team use. I read that your motto at nearby is "we're here to cheer".  

Absolutely, yes. And sometimes I come in on a Monday morning and if it's been a particularly difficult weekend or whatever, and I say to the girls - 'what are we here for?', and they will say -'we're here to cheer Jo!' Uh, yeah, that's right, and let's not forget it. And, you know, I suppose what it means is we are where we are. We are cheerleaders. We are here to cheer people on. We're here to cheer people up. You know, I think it was Jeff Banks who said, 'fashion -it's only effing frocks'. It's not life-saving brain surgery. And so that whole thing is that it's part of expression. It's part of, you know, of being alive. It's fun. And so it's all part of that cheering up in difficult circumstances. And we've definitely had a response from customers saying, oh my goodness, I've been shielding for 12 months. I've not seen anybody. Your little parcels have cheered me up, and that kind of thing gladdens our hearts. So, yes, I'm glad you reminded me. I'll go back now and talk to the girls, and we'll remind ourselves again. 'We are here to cheer!'  

What better way could we have to finish this interview? Thank you so much Jo Hooper. It's been fabulous and a real pleasure to talk to you, and catch up with you after all these years, and we will be sharing this interview on Instagram, but also on Spotify and iTunes. Jo, thanks so much for your time again.  

Pleasure. Thank you.  

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