Sam Bleazard talks to Dr Kirsty Fairclough, who was a lecturer at 21 - having decided she preferred critical analysis of the arts - following her degree in performance and media production. This wide-ranging interview covers culture in a time of Covid-19, the future of virtual (and live) events, the School of Digital Arts in Manchester, Phoenix Nights, the legacy of 'Mad Men', plus backstage memories of Beyonce, Nile Rodgers and Prince.
What is the future of the arts, live and virtual events? We put this question to Dr Kirsty Fairclough of Manchester's Metropolitan University. In a wide-ranging interview she also discusses the School of Digital Arts in Manchester, Peter Kay's Phoenix Nights, the legacy of 'Mad Men', plus backstage and concert memories of Beyonce, Nile Rodgers and Prince.
Show summary & chapters
1mins22secs - Love for Academia: where did it come from?
5mins09secs - Digital City Festival, virtual events and future live hybrids.
8mins05secs - Arena concerts and memorable backstage moments.
10mins48secs - Showcasing female entrepreneurs, #IWD2021 and AMPLIFYhER - a project supporting musicians in Brazil.
13minutes - Love of books, the legacy of 'Mad Men' and new projects coming up.
19mins15secs - Challenge of home-schooling and moving jobs during the pandemic, teaching online and setting up a school remotely.
23minutes - School of Digital Arts (SODA) and Manchester's cultural scene.
29mins30secs - Deleted scenes (and a cameo in Peter Kay's Phoenix Nights).
31mins17secs - Prince: memories and a critical appreciation.
38mins44secs - What we can learn from the Arts and hopes for the future.
Hi, my name is Sam Bleazard, welcome to Comms from the Shed, the interview show where you get to hear from a range of diverse and interesting voices on how they've coped during the global pandemic. In this series we will be taking an informal look at life, talking to people who've been doing incredible things, and asking them about their hopes for the future in both their personal and professional lives. Hope you enjoy it.
Joining me Today I have Dr Kirsty Fairclough, who is a reader in screen studies at the School of Digital Arts at Manchester Metropolitan University. She is Chair of the board at the Manchester Jazz Festival and also a board member at the Digital City Festival. She's an academic with over 20 years of research, teaching and leadership experience, she has lectured at New York University, the Royal College of Music in Stockholm and also Columbia College in Chicago, to name but three. Her writing is featured in no less than six books on popular culture, and she recently appeared on a TV documentary talking about the music of the 1980s.
Kirsty, welcome - that's quite a career. It's great to have you on Comms from the Shed.
Can I just ask, where did the love of academia come from?
Well, first of all, thank you Sam, for inviting me onto the podcast. I'm delighted to be here and speaking to you. That's an interesting question, because I was actually very interested in interested in performance when I was much younger. I did a degree in performance and in media production, actually. But what I found was that I actually prefer the critical analysis rather than the actual performance itself. So, I like to deconstruct a performance rather than actually perform. So that was kind of where my interest kind of split. I was all set in terms of wanting to act, but then I realized that actually, I much prefer the kind of critical deconstruction of film and theatre. So, yeah, that was where it all started.
Can I ask when that kind of transition happened? I mean, did you did you act for a while and were you an active participant in the arts before you moved into the more theoretical side?
Yeah. I got into academia when I was very, very young. I think it was 21 when I first started lecturing, which seems ridiculous now. So I was at Edinburgh Festival, because I used to go every year with various shows. I was there for the whole summer with a show back in goodness, it must have been May 1997. My goodness, I never really look back, so it's crazy to talk about this. I was in Edinburgh, had a phone call from someone I used to know who lectured at the University, who said, would you fancy doing a little bit of seminar coordination and leading some discussions. So I did. And that was it. I was absolutely hooked there and then and I was straight into academia before I even knew it, have been in it ever since, and absolutely love it. It's a joy and a privilege to do this job.
You know, it's great to hear you say that, I am also a massive fan of the Edinburgh Festival fringe and the arts. And funnily enough, I used to volunteer in the summer in Edinburgh to work for free. Part of the payoff was that you would get tickets to the shows. I remember doing a thing called Edinburgh Festival radio, and actually the interviews I did then, 20 plus years ago, are very similar to a lot of interviews I do now, so it was fantastic experience.
Oh, my goodness, that’s amazing. I used to spend the whole month there, and it was really interesting because I've been there with, literally no budget shows, which, you know in itself is an experience. I've also been to Edinburgh with people like Peter Kay and Russell Brand in a previous life. So, you know, I've kind of seen both sides of it and, venues like The Assembly Rooms, which I'm sure you remember. The whole of the entire comedy industry would decamp from London to Edinburgh during that time, and those were just absolutely crazy days. But they were fantastic. They really were.
You're bringing back memories now, as I remember interviewing the slightly off the wall comedian and magician Jerry Sadowitz in the Assembly Rooms bar who was a huge hit back then. And he was a really interesting character off camera. I saw a different side to him when I interviewed him, and I wish I still had an audio transcript of that interview because it was one of the funniest things I think I've ever experienced.
Now, you are currently involved in so many different projects, and I just wanted to ask you about a couple of them for the benefit of our listeners. First of all, can I just ask you what the Digital City Festival is, how you would you describe it? Because I know that's something you are heavily involved in.
I'm on the board and steering group of the Digital City Festival, which is a festival that showcases all things creative, digital and tech within Manchester and the Northwest. Last year was the first year and it was held in person, and I think it was the last event that I went to. It's really to showcase the fantastic expertise that we have in the region and beyond. So it’s really about showcasing that, and providing a global platform for it.This year it will be all online and there's some exciting plans afoot for the festival, which will take place from, I think it's something like 12th of April, for two weeks. So there's loads and loads of content being created at the moment, which is very exciting.
That is very exciting. And I think I saw something that you responded to on LinkedIn, or perhaps it was on social media. It was It was a comment from someone in the BBC about how Covid has opened our eyes to the virtual event experience. And when you reflect on the last 12 months, how would you say our view of events, and also virtual events, has changed?
Oh gosh. Well, I've got direct experience of this as so many of us have. Firstly I'm helping to set up the leadership team of a new school of digital arts (SODA). So the whole idea of pivoting to the digital has been so front and centre for me, but also in terms of the Manchester Jazz Festival. It's Manchester’s longest running music festival, and we were pretty ready to go last year with our 25th anniversary. However then we had to move the entire festival online in a very short space of time, which was extremely stressful, but extremely rewarding at the same time. And now I think we expect that notion of hybridity, don't we? You know, in some ways this has closed so many gaps, because we’re so much more able to speak to people in a different way to that we would have been able to in the past. The idea that you know, when we come out of Covid, there will be an online event coupled with the in-person event. I think that's an expectation now, certainly from people I'm talking to in arts and culture and the digital sectors, that there should be both – so that is where things are going. And I think the school of digital arts, which I'm sure we’ll come onto later, is very, very well placed to be able to support that.
I noticed as well on the list of books that you’ve been involved in, which I haven’t read yet – but which looks fascinating – is called the Arena Concert: Music, Mass Media and Entertainment. Based on what we've just talked about, that is also a modern phenomenon and a shared mass experience? What are your views on that now?
The book was really the first critical assessment of the notion of an arena concert and what that actually means in terms of a mass shared experience. The catharsis of that, you know, it was an analysis of the kind of architecture of arena concert spaces. So it almost feels like we need to re-issue it, we need to update that book, because the notion of what a shared experience is has changed. Recently I was on a panel at the Lost Horizon Festival where we were discussing online and they had literally created an immersive experience of a festival that was at Shangri-La in Glastonbury, and obviously that now has taken off. They've had an amazing traction with it. So the idea that you can go to a festival via an immersive experience, what that means and how that changes the notion of the shared experience. I don't think anything I have to say will ever replace that live experience, though, when it comes to music, ever. But I can see where there is a place for the immersive experience, using new technologies or relatively new technologies, to enhance it. But for me there's nothing like it, there certainly isn't.
And in case I forget to ask you this question later, because you’re such a lover of the arts and live music, I wondered if there were any memorable concerts that you've attended – that stay in your mind?
I've been really, really lucky because I've been in a position where I've been able to go to so many and I’ve often had backstage experiences as well, which has put me in a really privileged position, so I was incredibly lucky. I was there at Live 8, which was in 2005, as a sequel to Live Aid. I was backstage throughout all of that, and it was absolutely incredible. Some of those moments were just unbelievable. But of course, and this is probably going to come as no surprise to anyone who knows me, that I’m also going to say all of Prince's concerts. I saw Prince 12 times and no one could ever come close to him as a live performer.
Well, I am a self-confessed Prince fan myself, so we’ll come back to the purple one later on. But that's great to hear about those live experiences. There's so much to get through, given your involved in so many different projects and pieces of work. I noticed that you mentioned the three I inclusive innovation event on your posts online. Could you just tell us a little bit about what that is and why it matters?
Yeah, I've been asked to speak at that event, which is organized by UK R&I. It's to showcase female entrepreneurs, and people who are working in innovation, in digital, creative and tech. The panel I'm on is the session on hospitality and events. It's about showcasing the latest innovations and matching female innovators and creative tech entrepreneurs with potential collaborators. It's really great to be a part of that, and especially with International Women's Day coming up very, very soon. So, yeah, I'm thrilled to be involved, and I'll be talking about all things ‘SODA’.
You mentioned International Women's Day, of course, which I think everybody in the world of communication and media are always very tuned into. I also noticed that you're involved in an event called AMPLIFYhER, which is to do support female musicians in Brazil, so I wondered if you could just talk a little bit about that event as well?
Yeah, so we've just secured GCRF, which is the Global Challenges Research fund. So we've received some funding from a call which came through to the university to work with 12 female musicians in Brazil to help support them in the promotion of themselves as artists. There are some real disparities in certain parts of the world around the idea of female musicians being out there in the industry. I'm really, really, really thrilled to be a part of that. It's a pilot project, so we're starting work on that now, and hopefully it will lead to other projects that will really help to support musicians in those parts of the world.
Excellent, and I must also ask you about books, because you are involved either as a contributor or as a publisher on numerous books. I wondered how that came about, and do you have a particular love of books? Because that's a whole discipline in itself isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely, and as an academic it's what I live and breathe. As academics, we are, of course researchers. That's what we do. We write, we think, we create, we publish. It's kind of part and parcel of the everyday. So it's been wonderful to work with some amazing collaborators. The first book that we did was on the music documentary, which is, gosh, almost a decade old. And I was thinking the other day we need a new one actually, because there's so many other great documentaries now to analyse. I usually work with a group of collaborators, and we come up with some ideas and think about some gaps in knowledge and what hasn't been written about yet. How can we contribute to the field? So, yeah, that for me is a huge love and I'm working at the moment on a book which came out of a film season that I co-curated at home in Manchester. That's called pop stars on film. We're looking at the notion of the how the pop star translates or doesn't translate to a cinematic space, and how that can work well or not so well. And to think about that in a global context and in different cinematic film markets essentially. So we're working on that one at the moment. I'm also working on another one called Diva, which is looking at the idea of the diva linked with ideas about feminism within RnB and Hip-hop. There's four of us working on that book at the moment, so hopefully that will be out by the end of the year. Analysing people like Aaliyah, looking at people like Neneh Cherry, Grace Jones, Beyonce and Mariah Carey, that notion of the diva within that particular genre and how that has translated to a global context.
I think the last book sounds fantastic. I remember seeing a Beyonce concert at the O2, and I seem to remember that she got a zip wire from one side of the auditorium to the other to do a kind of acoustic set on a smaller stage. But that book sounds absolutely fantastic, so I look forward to reading it when it comes out.
I'm going to make a damning admission to, you now Kirsty, which you may find hard to believe, but I've never seen an episode of…oh, hang on, there's a noise in the background there. I'll ask this question again…
Somebody at my door! This is what happens in Covid times, right? It wouldn't be right would it, unless there's a knock at the door?
…I was just about to reveal to you the incredible fact that I've never seen an episode of the program Mad Men, which you might find hard to believe! Obviously the book in itself was a bit of a cultural phenomenon, and a widely watched and loved program. As your book is about the legacy of Mad Men, just for my own benefit and interest - what would you say the legacy of Mad Men is and how would you sum it up?
That book came out of a conference that I co-convened with a partner in Tennessee. So we held the most fantastic event, if I do say so myself, but mainly because of Middle Tennessee State University, not me. We had an opening academic party where everybody was dressed in Mad Men gear with cocktails in hand. The whole event was themed just like the era it was set in, it was just fabulous. So the book came out of that, and what it does is looks at this idea of how Mad Men can actually speak to the current moment as well. It adds new perspectives to the legacy of it if you like. It also talks about the Trump era and how you can map some of the sense of what Mad Men was trying to do upon what's happening now. It's quite a nuanced set of essays in that book which look at the depiction of a really complex decade. Obviously, that's what Mad Men did (looked in a new way at a complex decade), and it kind of brings it up to date in in terms of looking at the cultural importance of it. I'm really proud of that book, and we have some fantastic writers in it. It does look at it through a set of different lenses. Worth watching the series!
Absolutely. I think I think I will. I have license to go and revisit it now or just visit it for the first time.
Yeah, it plays with the idea - what is quality television? And you know, how Mad Men's legacy fits into that idea of what quality television is, because it's often talked about in in those terms. It is a television show that had a significant impact on the zeitgeist and the cultural landscape depicting that particular time - the late fifties and early sixties. But also how it can easily be transposed to what's going on at the moment. So that's kind of the overview.
That's excellent, and I think you're absolutely right. From what you've said there are definite parallels with what's going on now. In terms of progression, it always seems like two steps forward, one step back.
Part of the idea behind Comms from the Shed is about us having the opportunity to reflect on this period. We've all worked in different careers, but many of us found ourselves working from home 100% of the time for, well, 12 to 14 months. And this podcast is an attempt to allow people to share some of their feelings and reflections about that, but also talk about how creative they have been in the period. Kirsty what would you say are the biggest challenges you’ve faced into during the last 12 months, either professionally or personally?
Gosh, I mean, I don't think I’ve even processed last March! Never mind anything since. But, you know, I'm in a very lucky position in that I can work from home, so I do recognize that privilege 100%. I think, as a single parent, I found the home schooling and working full time at a very intense pace, extremely challenging, as have many, many people. As have many of my colleagues. You're living at work essentially now, aren't you? There isn't really a separation, and I think it's important to ensure that – even though people have heard this so many times - having some of those small rituals or ways of coping. Whether it is just going for a walk at lunchtime for 10 minutes, whether it is meditating for 10 minutes, whether it is baking banana bread, which I did unsuccessfully several times. But I tried, you know, it is just trying to put something in your day that kind of separates this insane kind of intense time. And yeah home Schooling as well has been a particular challenge, which many people can relate to, I'm sure.
Absolutely. I think my reflection on home-schooling is that I have two daughters and they literally haven't asked for my help once, which is both concerning and slightly upsetting. I think it's symptomatic of the fact that a generation that have Google on tap and their friends on online discussion groups on their mobile phones as well - which is very 21st century. I know the pandemic hit arts and the education sector very hard, so in terms of support for students and also the creative talent we have in the UK - what work are you most proud of, that you've been involved in recent months?
Well I moved jobs in the pandemic, so it's been a very strange experience for me, because I haven't yet met any of my colleagues in person. Integrating into a new team and seeing the way that the team have worked incredibly hard on a new university to support students, both in my previous university and my current one has been incredible. Because you know, just the anxiety that not only students that staff are feeling, and the way that everyone has really, really rallied around to support each other and support students makes me really, really proud to be a member of the academic community. These are extremely difficult times and remain extremely difficult times, and teaching online is very, very different and very, very hard and takes its toll on everyone. Seeing that in particular, and also being part of setting up a new school completely remotely, it's been crazy to be a part of, but absolutely amazing. Just something positive to focus on has been great. But you know, there's been some really difficult times, particularly for us and for Manchester jazz. I’ve found that this has been an extremely difficult period and continues to be, and we're certainly not out of it yet. There's a long way to go and I won't get too political, but I'm sure my view is probably no surprise to you in that the way that the arts have been treated, I think initially, and in some respects continue to be treated in this country has been shocking and disappointing. But we have a way forward, and I think we'll come back stronger, I hope.
Yeah, absolutely, I'd echo those sentiments, and I sincerely hope that's the case. And you mentioned the school that you're setting up. Firstly, what is the school, and can you tell us a little bit more about that project?
So, the school of digital arts is a £35 million investment between Greater Manchester Combined Authority and Manchester Met. And essentially what we're set up to do is to plug that digital skills pipeline. We teach across a whole range of subjects and we're very interdisciplinary, from photography, filmmaking, games, art, UX, animations – there are a whole range of courses that we’ll be teaching, and we open our doors in September. The building is nearly there, which is amazing, and we're headed up by a fabulous advisory group which is co-chaired by Danny Boyle, the filmmaker, who I'm sure many people will know. Also on the group is Nicola Shindler, who I'm sure many people will also know as an amazing drama producer, who has produced some of the UK's best-known dramas. There are people on the group from Apple, Channel 4, Universal Music, and some amazing creatives like Jenn Nkiru who just made Beyonce's Black is King. We've got some fantastic support from the industry so we're really, really excited to get SODAs doors open and we're all set to do that in September. We teach courses from foundation degree all the way up to PhD. We've got an amazing set of researchers that I'm working with at the moment because I lead on research and knowledge exchange. So, doing some fantastic work – for a recent project, we won a million pounds Innovate UK grant to work with a SME called Forever Holdings. And we created a project called Audience With a Hero. So we worked with the musician Nile Rodgers to create a sort of digital synthetic avatar version of him, that were prototypes, so you can have a conversation with Nile, and he was amazing to work. So you can use that idea potentially for album releases, all kinds of things. So, yeah, the Nile Rodgers project has just been absolutely brilliant - to see it come to fruition. There’s some really exciting research going on, particularly in AI, looking at algorithms and bias, VR immersive, particularly. But the whole of the school is hinged around this idea of future story telling, so telling stories through new technology. That's really what what's SODA is about, and that’s SODAs mission. It's just been brilliant to focus on something really positive in this horrible time. I think everyone says I made a move at the right time and, you know, perhaps I did. Sometimes the universe works in funny ways.
No, absolutely, and having read Nile Rodgers autobiography, I'd certainly like to have a conversation with him at some point, because he's a fascinating individual and obviously extremely influential in the world of music. I now want to ask you about something else, reflecting on some of the things you said there and talked very passionately about earlier. I previously worked for a construction firm called Laing O’Rourke, and they were involved in a project in Manchester called The Factory, which I know is about future provision for the arts. Do you think that Manchester is going through a kind of cultural or economic renaissance of some kind? I just wondered what your views on that where, as someone who is obviously so important to the area there.
Well it's the greatest city in the world in my opinion! And I've travelled a lot. Yes, I know what you mean. I don't think it's a cultural renaissance because Manchester's cultural scene has always been extremely rich. I mean, it's just fantastic the amount of music and theatre and all the cultural elements that emerged from this beautiful city that we live in - well, I live in. I don't know if it's a renaissance, but in terms of the boom in terms of the creative digital and tech sector, we are in a really, really strong position, as there’s a lot of investment going into Manchester at the moment. You know, the school of digital arts is all part of that ecosystem. So I think we're in a really, really good place - obviously Covid has put the city back somewhat, as it has with every city. But I think Manchester is extremely resilient as someone born and bred here, we've been through a lot, in a lot of different ways, and there’s been some really tough times. But what we seem to have in this in this city, and I'm kind of stereotyping the entire city here, but there is that sense that, we can. We do bounce back from difficult times in the sense that resilience is very, very strong within the city. I've got no doubt that, post-Covid, there are going to be some fantastic parties going on in Manchester.
Absolutely. And I think we are all trying to look to the future. You know I don't want to get to drawn too much because there have been a few a few false starts, but obviously, we are all kind of hopeful, and optimistic for a period later this year or even next year, or the year beyond where we are living something like a normal life again. If the world could return to normal right now - where would you be going later today? If you could If you could choose any place, and you were completely free – in terms of any option that you wanted.
Okay, that's interesting. Where would I go? I would definitely go into the city in Manchester, and I'd be moving around and going to a favourite restaurant or be going to watch something at home. You know, just doing the normal stuff. Just to be involved in the cultural scene again, and we have an amazing hospitality scene in Manchester as well. We've got some fantastic restaurants, so I would just have a little mooch around my favourite city, and that would make me happy. I can't wait to do that again.
Now on Episode one of Comms from the Shed I shared an unusual fact about myself. Is there something unusual about you that people listening would be unlikely to know?
Oh, that's a question. Um, that people don't know? I don't know that's a tricky one. Where should I start? Maybe that I was cut out of Phoenix nights, and I'll never forgive Peter Kay that he cut me out! I’m in the deleted scenes. I was also in the movie 24-hour Party People, very, very, very briefly, I think you see my hair - I think that's it! And what else? I'm a rollerskater, perhaps people don't know that.
I've got to ask about the Peter Kay thing - now that you've you brought it up. What was the scene that you were due to be in? And what was the particular piece that was cut out?
Yes. So I was walking into the club and Max and Paddy, well Paddy was on the door, and I had, I think, two lines which didn't make it. I'm on the deleted scenes somewhere, but I've known Peter Kay for a long, long time. So yeah, I remember that I was gutted. I’ve gotten over it, just!
Well, that's excellent. I think we're all going to be looking through the DVD extras of Phoenix nights now. See if we can catch you and that deleted scene.
Thanks Sam, but I'm not sure anyone is that interested!
But we did talk about Prince earlier and I must come back to talk about Prince briefly. Not least because both when he was alive, and now since his passing, he's kind of a cultural phenomenon in his own right. And I know that you've been involved in various events both in the U.S. and in the UK, but have also worked on a book looking at Prince from a critical perspective. Are you surprised that there's been so much interest in him since his passing, and are there more critical studies of his work due to come out in the near future?
I'm not surprised at all, but I was surprised at the lack of critical engagement with his work. So hence I kind of thought I needed to host a conference on Prince, because if I don't do it, someone else will. So I collaborated again with one of my colleagues at Middle Tennessee State University, Professor Mike Alleyne and, you know, basically put the idea to him, and he was like - yes, let's do this. So the conference that I ran in 2017 was the world's first interdisciplinary conference on the life and legacy of Prince. It was based in Salford when I was at Salford University, we engaged the City Council and various cultural partners. It was amazing how people got involved because if you're running an academic conference on a cultural icon, you're going to have to engage with the fandom as well. So we made sure that we really did that, and we reached out, and we had Dez Dickerson over who lives in Nashville now, who came and did the keynote for us. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience, and from that it's just snowballed. So we have a kind of international group of scholars now that I work closely with. So the book came out last year, and essentially came from that conference. We have another conference taking place this June. It should have been last June in Minneapolis, but sadly that wasn’t meant to be. This conference that I'm hosting with Mike is called ‘78 to ‘88 and it’s looking at the first decade, and how Prince established himself within the Minneapolis scene and then internationally. It's really going to be doing a deep dive into that first decade of his work. I've spoken at several other Prince conferences since the first one and one of my colleagues, DeAngela Duff, who is based at New York University, runs a number of symposia on Prince. I'm speaking at one at the end of this month, which is called 1 + 1 + 1 is 3, which is looking at his albums Diamonds and Pearls, The Rainbow Children and Controversy - so that's going to be fantastic. It will be a weekend of critical analysis on Prince from some brilliant scholars who are absolutely fantastic. So it's definitely snowballed in terms of the Prince scholarship community, and I've had the absolute honour of being able to go to Minneapolis a number of times now. You know it’s a bit surreal because as a young kid I was just obsessed with Prince, and then many years later I’m getting picked up by Prince's cousin from the airport. It's just been a crazy, crazy experience, but absolutely wonderful. And, yeah, I do feel like we're raising the profile of Prince scholarship. And people say, why do you do it? Why do you analyse someone who's not here anymore? But you know thinking about his legacy in terms of the way that he used new technologies, the way that he railed against the Internet in so in so many ways, but then embraced it as well. And his position in terms of representation, of race, gender, sexuality, what he was doing back then was years ahead of so many others. He was a trailblazer in so many ways and so it’s very important to keep his legacy alive. It's been a real privilege to be a part of that, and it's been a really interesting journey over the last three and a bit years.
It sounds fascinating. And obviously Prince generated an incredible body of work, a phenomenal amount of music and concerts and, like you say, multimedia experiences too. In terms of those actual experiences, the sort of contact you had with Prince when he was alive - are there any memorable moments that really stick in your mind, either a concert or a recording? Because it's obviously something you're very passionate about.
Yeah, I did see him at the Manchester Academy, which is a really small venue. And seeing him that close was just…were you there?
…I’m just I'm so glad you said that - I was I was there. Wasn't it part of the Manchester University? It was in a small square room, wasn't it? I'm getting excited now because I didn't realize that we were at the same concert, but you talk, and I'll reflect.
Yeah, I mean, just that. I've seen him in other venues, many others. I also saw him at Manchester Apollo once, and that was amazing because he walked up the aisle and I was on the end, so I just managed to, you know, my hand touched his cape, or whatever he was wearing at the time, so that was a highlight. Seeing him at the Academy in that small space was just unbelievable. That was mind blowing because, you know, you're used to seeing those kinds of artists in big venues and being that close, for that kind of intimate performance. I have seen so many artists and no one comes close to his performance level. Yeah, I'm sure you've got views on it, but it was a really, really special experience.
Well I'm going to share something about it, and agree it was an incredible experience. Prince at the time was, rightly I think from my point of view, getting quite annoyed about people holding mobile phones in the air during concerts. The reason I mention this is because there was a lot of security and a lot of checks that you had to go through to get into that show, which was which was very surreal anyway, because we queued up outside Manchester University. I remember queuing up along the street, and it was almost like going into University halls to see Prince. It really was quite surreal. A friend of mine, who's actually from Stockport originally, and who is a big music fan but had never seen Prince in concert. I was trying to persuade him to come. We drove up from London to Manchester to see that show, and it was just surreal when we first got into the venue. I mean, as you know, it's a very small place as you mentioned, being just a very small square room. But there was a mic stand with Prince's gold symbol on the front of it. My friend Martin turned to me and he said that this it was almost like a kind of wind up, like someone's just mocked up that microphone stand, plonked it in this little room, and clearly Prince is not going to be performing here. But it really was quite an incredible show, and I like you I saw Prince quite a few times and you know the performance level was extraordinary. I do feel it's a shame for people who maybe wanted to see Prince but never got the opportunity, because those of us that did certainly became hooked on the music and the and the magic. And like you, I've written quite a lot on Prince in the past, and I'm sure we will all continue to do that to keep his legacy alive. So it's great to share that with you. And he was one of the greatest artists of his generation. I don't think there's any question on that.
Just just to finish off with a couple of questions Kirsty. Firstly, what could other industries learn from the arts in this period of adversity, are there things that you've seen and that people are doing that others could learn from?
I think it's that notion of adaptability, isn't it? And you know the thinking that, allows you to pivot very, very quickly or to think about different ways of, your output and your creativity getting out into the world. I've seen that time and time again, with a lot of creatives over the last year, just being able to really to pivot in ways that have produced new and exciting work. So, yeah, I think that idea of adaptability is really important.
Yeah, absolutely. You've talked about a lot of the exciting projects that you're involved in, from events to books and other things. But what are your hopes for the future? In terms of the next few months, what would you like to achieve this year?
Well, I'm particularly hopeful that the Manchester will get back on its feet in terms of the cultural scene. And, of course, that SODA will open its doors and welcome people to be a really, really important part of the cultural, digital and tech ecosystem in Manchester. So for me, those are the things I'm really focused on, and for Manchester Jazz, because I'm chair of that festival. We're already coming up with new ways of being able to get that music out there, so watch this space on the Manchester Jazz front.
That sounds great, and I think all music lovers will definitely take an interest in that. I wanted to say thank you for your time, because I know how incredibly busy you are, from having talked to you off-mic and off camera. So thank you for being so generous with your time. I feel like we probably need to do a separate podcast just on Prince to be perfectly honest with you, so maybe we'll talk about that. I think that would be great. Maybe the live concert experience something like that. But for the time being, thank you so much for talking to Comms from the Shed and sharing your experiences these last few months. And I wish you every success and everything you do. And I would encourage all our listeners to keep tabs on all these great projects you're involved in. So thanks very much for your time today, Kirsty.
Thank you Sam, it's an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Thanks and bye for now.